Todd Helton was also a great defensive 1B, which is not something Coors impacted. His road OPS for his career was .855, better than Eddie Murray's .838. Frank Thomas was a massively better hitter than Helton, but worse at every other aspect of the game: worse base runner, worse at hitting into DP, WAY worse as a defender. Was Thomas a better overall player still? Yes. A better HOF? Yes. But does Helton fall that far off because his home park was Coors? No, not at all. Look at the overall player and look at stats which adjust for park factors such as OPS+, WAR batting components, and you'll see he's very clearly in the HOF mix for 1B. Please reconsider.
You vote for Bonds, Clemens and Sheffield, all known juicers, but David Ortiz doesn't pass the "smell test"? What the?
You ask why myopic Minnesota gave up on him? Good question. After all, his last two seasons there, the then-youngster hit 38 home runs in just over 700 at-bats.
Ah, but a little homework tells the story:
"After the [2002] season, the small-market Twins faced a decision on Ortiz, who had made $950,000 and would likely have been granted around $2 million for 2003 by an arbitrator. Rather than negotiate a contract, or go to arbitration, the Twins instead decided to release Ortiz as a cost-cutting move on December 16, after being unable to swing a trade for him."
Fast forward to 2021, with the commissioner himself going out of his way to say that regarding Ortiz, the supposed 2003 issue was unreliable, that "there was probably, or at least possibly, a very legitimate explanation that did not involve the use of a banned substance. Back then, it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal — available over the counter and not banned under our program — and certain banned substances.”
Add to that that in the 13 remarkably productive years that followed, Big Papi never, ever, failed a drug test. Either all the testing being done is worthless (although it has snagged a lot of others), or he was an amazingly ingenious cheater.
I am not criticizing your vote but sometimes players do figure something out on a new team with new coaches. What about Simian? I am not a writer but would include Ortiz if I did have a vote unless there is a definite, reliable smoking gun. Thanks for sharing your vote.👏👏
Less than 2% of players are Hall of Fame worthy. I see no one on the ballot as worthy of enshrinement. I could not justify Clemens and Bonds if the reasoning behind Ortiz is valid. Having been to Cooperstown on a couple of occasions, it is a very special place. None of these players rise to that level, in my less than humble opinion.
You make a valid defense of your vote. But it’s not hall of fame voting if someone doesn’t bitch about it.
So…………. WHAT THE HELL!!!!!
The only thing i dont understand is how Todd Helton gets no love what so ever. Dude was lifetime .316 hitter. l
Just as Bonds and Clemens get your pre steroid vote, my post steroid vote disqualifies them, you don’t get better after turning 35/36
Todd Helton was also a great defensive 1B, which is not something Coors impacted. His road OPS for his career was .855, better than Eddie Murray's .838. Frank Thomas was a massively better hitter than Helton, but worse at every other aspect of the game: worse base runner, worse at hitting into DP, WAY worse as a defender. Was Thomas a better overall player still? Yes. A better HOF? Yes. But does Helton fall that far off because his home park was Coors? No, not at all. Look at the overall player and look at stats which adjust for park factors such as OPS+, WAR batting components, and you'll see he's very clearly in the HOF mix for 1B. Please reconsider.
You vote for Bonds, Clemens and Sheffield, all known juicers, but David Ortiz doesn't pass the "smell test"? What the?
You ask why myopic Minnesota gave up on him? Good question. After all, his last two seasons there, the then-youngster hit 38 home runs in just over 700 at-bats.
Ah, but a little homework tells the story:
"After the [2002] season, the small-market Twins faced a decision on Ortiz, who had made $950,000 and would likely have been granted around $2 million for 2003 by an arbitrator. Rather than negotiate a contract, or go to arbitration, the Twins instead decided to release Ortiz as a cost-cutting move on December 16, after being unable to swing a trade for him."
Fast forward to 2021, with the commissioner himself going out of his way to say that regarding Ortiz, the supposed 2003 issue was unreliable, that "there was probably, or at least possibly, a very legitimate explanation that did not involve the use of a banned substance. Back then, it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal — available over the counter and not banned under our program — and certain banned substances.”
Add to that that in the 13 remarkably productive years that followed, Big Papi never, ever, failed a drug test. Either all the testing being done is worthless (although it has snagged a lot of others), or he was an amazingly ingenious cheater.
I am not criticizing your vote but sometimes players do figure something out on a new team with new coaches. What about Simian? I am not a writer but would include Ortiz if I did have a vote unless there is a definite, reliable smoking gun. Thanks for sharing your vote.👏👏
Less than 2% of players are Hall of Fame worthy. I see no one on the ballot as worthy of enshrinement. I could not justify Clemens and Bonds if the reasoning behind Ortiz is valid. Having been to Cooperstown on a couple of occasions, it is a very special place. None of these players rise to that level, in my less than humble opinion.